Greg Coplen: What gives you value and purpose and makes you the person that you are, is not defined by the time that you run in your track meet or on the basketball court. I think that if we’re really helping these kids prepare for life and the hardships and challenges and, and joys and success and all the things that they’re gonna be, I think if we’re truly committed to that. Then we’re committed to the day-to-day of making sure that they understand that.
Dr. Gina Fick: Welcome to the PT Rebels Podcast. This is the place to learn how you can become a PT rebel and take charge of your own health and wellness. We will help you find answers to your questions about pain, injury, and the path towards healing in the most efficient and effective way possible. I’m your host, Dr. Gina Fick.
Coach Copeland is the head, cross, country, and distance coach at Saal High School. He has been coaching distance runners for over 15 years, 13 years at the high school level. He is passionate about building teams of high character individuals that believe in the mantra. When your teammates success is just as important to you as your own success, then you have taken a very necessary step in reaching your potential as well as the quickest way to destroy something beautiful. To compare it to something else. Those beliefs have led to a significant amount of success throughout the years.
Coach Copeland has coached teams in four different years at two different schools that have finished the season in the Diastat national rankings. Three of those teams finishing in the top 10 in the country, and one of those teams finishing in the top five in the country. He has coached a three time All American sophomore and junior national class record holder. He has coached Colorado State Champions in cross country as well as track and field, and an eight hundred sixteen hundred and thirty two hundred, as well as a four by 800 state championship team. His runners have won those state championships over six different years since 2012.
This past season, his first year of coaching at Chaparral High School, he helped coach the five A boys state champion and oversaw the emergence of the Chaparral Girls Cross country team. Finished third in the state and six at Nike XR Southwest and 27th in the country. Before this past year, the Shap girls had not been ranked in the top 10 in the state in over 15 years. Coach Copeland, welcome to the podcast. It’s a privilege to have you with us today.
Coach Copeland: Glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Gina: It is an honor to have you today. I’ve wanted to do this for quite some time with you, and I highly respect you. Not only as a coach, but as a friend. And I’ve been so thankful for your friendship and for knowing you and seeing the success that you’ve had with your teams for so many years now. So I wanna do to have you on the podcast, to talk about our collaboration together and what that looks like for the teams and the athletes that you’ve had throughout the years to get your insight on what makes a champion, what makes a champion resilient and resilient through injuries and how we team together. To help these athletes and to help the teams that you’ve been a part of.
Coach Copeland: Thanks for having me on. And, uh, respect goes, uh, both ways. So it’s really, uh, an honor to, to be on this. Thank you so much.
Dr. Gina: Coach, why did you get into coaching in the first place, and what drives you as a coach to show up each and every day for your athletes?
Coach Copeland: Yeah. Uh, that’s a two part question for sure, because I, I accidentally got into high school coaching. I’d been a, an abot distance runner as for, for quite a few years. I’m a, I’m a recovering alcoholic and, and distance running was, uh, pretty significant part of my recovery. I really found something new in life. When I got sober, that became a big passion and my distance running was really just about me and my own recovery at first. And then I began helping just some friends who knew that I loved running marathons and started developing a knack for just helping them get to the place they wanted to go.
But as far as coaching high schoolers, it was a little bit accidental. We were back in the, the panhandle of Texas. I was traveling quite a bit in my business and the athletic director at this high school knew that I was a distance runner and knew that I was really passionate about it. The high school cross country and track coach had resigned like right before. Cross country season. And so the athletic director had reached out to me and asked if I might be willing to help out, uh, while they looked for a new coach. Yeah. That’s really how I got into it now. Once I did get into it, it became, other than my family being married, it became the greatest passion in my life.
Dr. Gina: Yeah. And I’ve seen that passion just really play out through the years, and I think your ability to create culture and to transfer that passion to your teams and to your athletes is what. One of the things that’s made you so successful, and so on a day-to-day basis, um, what do you get excited about with coaching? What are some of the things that you really enjoy in coaching high school athletes?
Coach Copeland: First off, what I really look forward to is I just, I love seeing the kids each day. I love. Seeing them right when they get to practice. I kinda love watching and seeing, hey, where do I think they are emotionally, mentally today it’s, we’re in Colorado and it might be on a September afternoon or August afternoon after school. It might be a hundred degrees outside. If it’s January, it might be 10 degrees outside and, uh, a lower windshield. And so it’s. It’s always interesting to see where the kids are when they’re coming to practice each day, and I love that piece of it. I, I love checking in with them, talking to them before practice, and then depending on what we have going on that day, that it’s time to start making some real time decisions about, Hey, are we gonna continue with exactly what’s planned today or based on what I’m seeing? Are we going to make some real time decisions to make some changes? And I love the ebb and flow of that piece.
Dr. Gina: I think your ability to really read and get the pulse of your team is so essential in that check-in process and their willingness to pivot if needed based on how they’re feeling. I think that’s really important. I think that’s one thing as a coach that makes you successful is because you’re willing to, number one, listen to them. But also number two, make that pivot if you need and not just do what you have on the plan for that week. I remember several times that kids would call from your office and you know, would have them check in with me based on how they’re feeling, or I’d be with a kid and you give me a call, and just to have that ability to check in with the athlete and communicating with each other. And being able to quickly change what I’m doing or changing what you’re doing with that training program has really been helpful, I think, for our athletes. And so I really enjoy having that freedom to be able to communicate with you and vice versa. I think it’s been really helpful.
Coach Copeland: Yeah, that partnership has been a partnership has been huge for sure.
Dr. Gina: I have another question for you. In terms of some of your most successful athletes, what are some of the qualities and character traits? Have observed and seen in these athletes that go on to be at the elite level.
Coach Copeland: As I look back through the years, each individual athlete, they, they all have their certain things to make them who they are. I do think that there are some similarities across the board in, Hey, how do you take a kid who is here and all of a sudden they’re moving to an elite type level? And I, I think some of those things are the ability to self-motivate, right? As a coach, if I want it more than a kid. They’re probably not reaching an elite level. If a parent wants it more than a kid, they’re probably not reaching an elite level. Some kids, yeah, they’re absolutely just so gifted. They may get close to that, but maybe rather than even saying elite level, it’s like reaching their potential as an elite athlete. I, I think that the ability to self-motivate. Do the things that it is going to take to reach that level is, is very important.
I think that their ability to trust in me as a coach, to trust in you as a pt, but also in the midst of that trust. Really, I, I think being able to communicate their personal needs and that was, I know you’ve had Taylor Whitfield on here before on your podcast and, and that was something that Taylor did so well. I wouldn’t have considered her injury prone in high school. There were certainly some things in her world that we had to be careful of. We work to a certain point. Taylor was then really good at letting me know her needs, letting you know her needs. I think that was really important.
Something that really stands out about all of the elite athletes I’ve had the privilege of coaching is they all have some sort of joy factor in their lives. They love what they’re doing. They love the people that they do it with. There there is joy within the coaching and the athlete relationship. I would say that every elite high school runner that I’ve coached has some sort of joy factor.
And then lastly, I think that, and this probably goes back to the ability to self-motivate, but I think that they have to be able. To be willing to do the things that others don’t wanna do. And that may mean pt, that may mean self-care of their recovery. Are you getting the, the extra mobility work done? Are you getting eight hours of sleep at night? Are you eating the way you should, hydrating the way you should? When all your friends are going to do something that’s gonna take a lot of energy? Can you say no to those things at the right time of the year? I’m not talking about, hey, as a, as a high school distance runner. You can’t have any fun. You can’t have relationships with your friends and and do the things that they do. But I do think that there are certain times throughout the year you have to make decisions about what you want long-term rather than what you want at the moment, because that whole joy factor that’s gonna become because these are well balanced kids. And maybe that’s one last one is I think that the most elite level kids I’ve ever coached, they’re very well balanced across the board. They are singularly focused when it’s time to be, but they’re very well balanced.
Dr. Gina: I think those are similar, similar qualities that I’ve seen as well. And how do you think you as a coach can help develop some of those qualities? What are some of the things that you see as Joy Steelers or Steelers of joy?
Coach Copeland: Comparison is the thief of joy. I’ve always said comparison is the quickest way to destroy something beautiful. I think the comparison game. Can take a, a kid down and, and not just a kid. The comparison game can take a coach downhill. I coach in an area where from year to year there’s probably four to five teams that are all ranked in the top 20 in the country within two to three miles. I mean, some of my best friends in the coaching community, they’re going to NX n and and things like Brooks PR almost yearly. And it’s really easy, especially in my early days of coaching, when we had a team of 15 kids at Valor, um, to see some of these programs pull up in their buses and 150 kids get off the bus and you see this huge program that’s had massive amounts of success. And I fought that as a coach early on here, comparing myself as a coach. Oh my gosh, I’ll never be here. And I had to fight that all the time. But what I really found is some of those coaches of those best teams. Those have become some of the best friends that I have, um, because they were all willing to help out and walk alongside me as a coach.
So I think the comparison game, whether you’re a coach or an athlete, that can be a joy stealer just on its own. I think that the things that can inhibit a kid, and it, this probably goes back to the other question you had just asked. I think when a kid gets so singularly focused on the task. It’s like you, you have a kid that they have these goals, they write ’em down, Hey, this is what I wanna achieve. They become so singularly focused, that becomes all that matters in their life. And I’m like, Hey, wait a minute. We are in high school right now. Okay? And you have friends and you have a family, and you have a school and you need to be going to high school football games when you need to be going and supporting your friends in what they’re doing. Obviously there’s a healthy balance with that. I think when I’ve seen that type of individual that has the capacity to downward spiral pretty quickly, I think we can be become our own worst enemy. When we don’t have maybe some broad things that, hey, these are things I really want to experience in life in the midst of my goals, rather than this is my goal and I will do whatever it takes, and everything else just goes to the wayside.
Dr. Gina: So I think one of the things that really stands out in my mind in terms of your success with coaching is your ability to create a really strong culture within your team, to the point where athletes are really willing to. Do whatever it takes to follow your training plan, to trust the process, to follow your system. What are some of the things that you do as a team to help develop that culture?
Coach Copeland: Sure. I think that whatever sports you’re in, it’s always called the the X’s and the O’s as a coach. And that’s not this relatable in the distance running world, but I think that knowing what you’re doing as a coach, we have to know what we’re talking about. That is a big piece of this. The, the best coaches I know have several things going for them, but the foundation of of all of that is always, Hey, I need to know. What I’m doing when I am training kid, because if I don’t understand the whole physiological piece and if I don’t understand the progression that we need to be taking a freshman in high school through a senior in high school, if I don’t understand that. Then all of the other things that I might have going for me as a coach, those at some point are gonna hit a wall, so I better know what I’m doing as a coach in helping develop a kid over the long haul.
I do believe that I have the capacity to make a kid believe something about themselves that they had never believed before. That for whatever reason, that’s just something that is innate in me as a coach. When I look at the kids in the past that have had success, whether it’s on a state championship level or whether it’s just breaking 25 minutes in the 5K, it’s helping kids realize that, listen, you have a potential here that you never knew existed. I probably saw that more in this last year. And I think I’d ever seen it in my coaching because my, my first year at shap, for the most part, these were the same kids that had been on the team the year before. But just coming in and being able to help these kids see, hey, this is what you are capable of and we’re gonna do the work to prepare ourselves to have these opportunities, but when the opportunity is there, this is what you are capable of accomplishing.
And I would say that has been one of the biggest. Relational builders between myself as a coach and the kids I coach is these kids know that I believe in them. I want the best for 100% of my kids, and I’d say about 99% of the time it works and 1% of the time it doesn’t. Well, that’s okay because quite honestly, there may have just been something as a coach that I didn’t offer that kid needed, and then they find it somewhere else, and that’s okay. I think across the board, kids know that I believe in them.
And the other piece of that I think as well is the kids know that I’m not ever going to ask them to do something that I don’t feel that they’re capable of doing. And they also know that I’m not going to ask them to do something that I’m not capable of doing myself. As a coach, this is a 46 to 48 week out of the year commitment for me. When they take a break, I take a break and I failed at that before, you know, where I probably needed to take a break when they were taking a break and I didn’t. And you hit some of that burnout and you realize quickly, Hey, I’m not the healthiest version of myself now because I didn’t take a break when I told the kids to. I coached them, but I didn’t coach myself.
And so I think that the kids understand that, hey, I hold them to a high standard. If they’re doing cross country and track, that high standard is if you wanna reach potential, this has to be a 46 to 48 out of week, out of the year thing. Okay. But you need to know that as you’re putting 46 to 48 weeks outta the year into this, that I’m gonna do, be doing the same thing right next to you.
Dr. Gina: I think that’s great advice and, and I think that’s. What I’ve seen from your athletes is they do have that understanding and they’re committed and they’ll do whatever it takes to make sure that they follow your training plan, they trust the process, and they ended up usually becoming pretty successful. It’s been really fun to watch and see that. So in terms of handling adversity and hardships, and in this case we’ll talk about injuries, how do you work to help support and encourage your athletes through that injury process?
Coach Copeland: It’s hard to be an injured athlete. As a pt, you know that because you’re watching your friends, you’re watching your teammates do things that you are maybe not getting to do at the time, and it can be heartbreaking there. I think that things like anxiety and depression can seep in, but I do think that especially when you’re at that place of being an injured athlete, you have to keep the people who love you the most around you. You’ve gotta keep them in your corner. You cannot isolate yourself from those that love you the most. The, these athletes have to be willing to listen to their coaches, listen to their friends, listen to their PTs, listen to their parents that want the best for them.
Being an injured athlete, especially when you’re a high level athlete, I think that’s a really tough thing. And especially in the teenage years, I, I think it’s even tougher. Because you’re looking at how quickly one year of high school can just be ripped away from you. When if you’re somebody who’s interested in competing at the next level, let’s say that happens your junior year of high school, when those times are pretty important. I think that trusting the process in the midst of that is really important. Obviously what we were talking about earlier with your coach, but then it becomes about trusting the process with your pt. Hey, what is Gina thick telling me that I need to be doing right now? And I’ve gotta trust this because if I’m going rogue and I’m doing my own thing, this is probably not going to fix itself very quickly.
I think the hardest person to hold accountable very often is ourselves. As, as a coach, I am passionate about holding athletes accountable to what they need to be doing. As an avid and passionate distance runner myself, I’m not always so good at holding myself accountable to that standard. If I’m training for a marathon and all of a sudden I’ve got an Achilles that’s starting to bother me, it’s all right. I’m 12 weeks out. I don’t have time to go see Gina. Okay, I’ve gotta do this and I need to get my running in. Well, two weeks later, I may be in a far for situation, and I’ve done that to myself. So. I think that we’ve gotta keep ourselves accountable and we’ve gotta understand the long game in it. Right? Again, like we referred to the short term cannot ever take precedence over the long term.
Dr. Gina: Great advice. When an athlete feels like they have an injury, how do you prefer that they communicate that with you? And what are the some of the next steps that you take in helping them manage that injury?
Coach Copeland: Yeah, I think first step is communicate that with me. It’s definitely double digit numbers and maybe triple digit numbers through however many years of coaching now that a kid ends up with some sort of injury, whether it’s minor or severe, just simply because something was hurting and they didn’t want to tell me because they were afraid I’d shut ’em down. So I think first step is, hey, just. Communicate and communicate early. If I’ve got a shin that’s bothering me, I need to communicate that to my coach and we’re gonna make a decision on what’s best.
We’ve got a girl on my team right now that you’ve worked with for a couple of years who’s had stress reactions in her shins. I think she, since she was a freshman in high school, and that’s been this ongoing thing. And so when I came in to shop this about a year ago. It became really important. That was the conversation with her because she was, again, in the middle of a three month break because a shin splint had developed into a full blown stress fracture, and it’s coming in and meeting her and, and knowing how she was wired. You know, you realize quickly that, hey, some of the reason that she’s in this position is because she doesn’t let you know on the front end what’s taking place.
So it was saying really early on because she’s, again, she’s one who wants to be a high performer. She will work however hard is necessary to get to this level. It sitting down with her and saying, listen, the potential for you to be at this level is there. However, you are having to take three month breaks once or twice a year because you allow this injury to get to this point. So what we’ve gotta look at is this next year your number one goal from basically March one to December 31st, 2023. The number one goal is that we do not have to take an extended break for an injury. We’re not gonna miss training time because we’ve gotten injured.
And guess what? It went nine months. We never took an extended break when we needed to take a daily break or a lacrosse training day, whatever that looked like, Hey, go get in the pool and deep water run, or get on the elliptical or get on the alter G. We did those things when this girl got to end up being a part of a team that finished third state. She was anywhere from our number one to four rudder throughout that whole season. Huge PRS across the board. And now we’re getting ready for a, a healthy winner of training. At this time, a year ago, she, you know, was on the sideline and if we’re gonna go into track season with her being really healthy. A lot of that had to do with just on the front end saying, listen, we’ve gotta communicate with each other. The relationship between her and myself has been huge. The relationship between her and you has been huge. She’s been consistent about coming in to see you, about getting those little things done like we talked about. So that was just one example with her. Just because this is a, a girl, you obviously know.
I know. And, but I think as a coach, I’ve gotta have a good relationship with people. I’m not just sending kids to you, okay, Gina, do your thing, and then you send them back to me and you’re like, okay, coach Copeland, do your thing. We communicate with each other. You let me know about what you are doing with the individual. I let you know what I’m doing with the individual. And I think that that relationship with the coach and a pt, it’s vital. And quite honestly, not just the coach and the pt, the coach, the kid, and the pt, it’s like a triangle. Hey, we’re all talking to each other. We’re all on the same page. And out of the three of us, one of us is not veering from that page, we are all moving the same direction.
Dr. Gina: How do you develop trust communication, but the healthcare provider, such as a physical therapist or chiropractor that you’ve chosen to partner with? I think, um, one of the, the biggest things is just that communication piece. Where if I see your cell phone ringing or I see a text come through, I try to answer it right away because I know that you have something important to communicate with me about, and I know that you do the same. Is there anything else that you value in that relationship and the people that you’ve chosen to partner with?
Coach Copeland: One of the reasons that you and I have a good relationship is that we’ve communicated. On the front end of things, you know that as a coach, I truly care about my athlete’s health and if I see something early on, we’ve gotta start moving in a direction to keep you healthy. I don’t know how much a PT is going to trust a coach. If the kids that the coach is sending the pt, PT are always in a pretty major phase of injury. I’m not gonna wait to send a kid your way. Until their legs broke, you know, or, or their hips torn or whatever. It’s, if I see things the front end where I’m like, Hey, this needs to be dealt with soon. That’s gonna happen soon. And so I think that building trust in the relationship early on is really important.
Dr. Gina: I think it goes back to what you were saying earlier too. For us as healthcare providers, I think we have to know what we’re talking about. We have to have a certain level of expertise, especially when it comes to working with. Cross country distance track and field athletes. I think that’s one of the key things in developing trust is just that you know what we’re talking about and that you see over time that we can have the conversations based on a good knowledge of not only the injury process and the injury, but also their sport and how you’re coaching. And so I think that develops time. I think it’s talking with each other, sitting down and talking about. What the workouts are gonna look like. I know that in the past, and now I, I get to see what those workouts look like and that’s helpful for me. I glance at them only because I know what that athlete’s going to be doing that week.
So if I have a kid who has Achilles tendonitis or a mild shin splint or mild bone stress injury, I can see what the training looks like and then I can give you a quick text or a phone call and say. Would you be okay if we put this kid in the alter G on their easy run days, or would you be okay if we offloaded this kid 25% and come at it from that approach of what’s your perspective? Instead of me saying, Hey coach, we’re gonna do this. It’s a partnership between all three of us with you and me and the athlete, and I want your input just as much as I wanna give my input. Because you get to see that kid every day. And then that becomes a easier conversation, not only with the athlete, but also with the parents and maybe the high school athletic trainer or whoever the other healthcare providers might be. I think that’s one of the ways that we can develop trust early on, is just to let you know that we’ve had experience in this area we know we’re talking about, and if it’s something we’re not sure of, we’ll help you find the answer.
Coach Copeland: Yeah. So being willing to pivot and change based on, if you tell me, I really need this kid. To be able to do X, Y, and Z this week. All right, let’s figure out a way that they can do that, that also won’t put them at potential risk for further injury. So I think that’s been really fun for me because I’ve learned so much in the last 10 years from working with coaches like yourselves. And really the best coaches that I’ve worked with are coaches who are just. Willing to listen to their athletes and willing to adapt and change based on how the athlete’s feeling. It goes back to the very first thing that we talked about today. I really respect coaches who are willing to listen and care enough about the kids to make sure that they get the care and treatment they need, and potentially change the program early on just so they can tackle that injury before it becomes something much worse.
Dr. Gina: What are some of the most common injuries that you have seen as a cross country and distance coach?
Coach Copeland: Lower leg stuff, for sure. I think especially with newer runners, it seems every year, especially early summer, there’s always a handful of kids. That have the kind of early onset shin splint stuff and sometimes that may be because they show up in a pair of kids to run from country in or so it sometimes it’s because they haven’t gotten the right shoes and they won’t go get the right shoes. Sometimes it’s because they come in, they’re telling me they’ve had a certain level of activity, and you realize pretty quickly, I don’t think they’ve actually been doing these things. So there’s always, I think, some lower leg stuff, especially early in the summer for especially probably the incoming freshmen.
But at the same time, I think through the years, just as a coach, probably that intuitive piece you start figuring out early in the summer, all right, I, you know what? I’m just gonna make these decisions based on what I’ve even experienced for the past decade. So. I think probably over these last few years I’ve probably seen the, the incidents of kind of those early onset shin fluent things probably dissipate just because as a coach it’s, you know what, I’m just gonna treat kind of these, these incoming kits just in this manner with their training because I have no idea what they’ve been doing.
But I do think some lower leg stuff, especially over time, the shin splint piece, especially with those kids like we’ve talked about that are. They’re a type kids that I, Hey, I’m trying to succeed and, and so they may work themselves to a certain level before you ever even know something’s hurting. And then by that time it’s, man, we’ve gotta be careful here. So definitely through the years I’ve probably seen some of those shin splints turn into stress reactions, even stress fractures, which I always hate. We had one female that had. Ended up missing time over the season, but I think out of all the guys and girls, that was it. And so over time, I think some of those things as a coach, you just start learning to look out for.
I do think especially with the younger females, especially as they’re getting ready to hit their growth spurge, there always seems to be at least one hip issue per year. And again, just as they’re developing, things are changing. I just think that the, the hip, the labrum, those things are like, we gotta be really careful here. I think you get the random hamstring or quad or something, but I don’t know that I would ever say those have been the consistent ones. I think the consistent ones have always been the lower leg or the hip through the years.
Dr. Gina: What tools do you feel been valuable for your athletes in our practice for recovery and helping them to heal quickly?
Coach Copeland: Sure. I would say first off, just injury prevention. As a coach, I don’t want ’em to get to that injury level, but sometimes it happens, and so then it becomes more about the management piece. But I think things like strength training, core work, hip mobility has been huge. You’ve been a huge help with that. We’re in the weight room twice a week for most of the year, uh, and I think that’s a huge prevention piece right up front. I’d say as a coach, through the years I’ve gone back and forth with weight training was a form of strength training. I, I have developed more and more of a trust in it through the years for distance runners, but I think it has to be managed correctly.
Taking a, a semester break from coaching and then coming back in at a new school, it really gave me an opportunity to take a look at coaching philosophy, year round philosophy and be like, all right, listen. What are things that maybe you’ve gotten away from that you believe in as a coach, and what are some things that, as you start this new role that I started last year, what are some things that you want to implement again, or what are some things that you’ve been wanting to implement that you just hadn’t, because you’re always just on the go.
And so I, I think that something that I really looked at this last year is that I have control of my program. I am the head coach of my program, and if someone else is overseeing the strength training, then I better be in absolute agreement up with it. With every little thing as a head coach, it, it’s my program to lead. I’ve been hired to do this and I’ve got to be in agreement with every piece that we do. And so something, even just as a change in my own coaching, and some of it’s just because of what’s available at the school I’m at, we don’t have a, a full-time performance trainer. We don’t have a lot of these things. And what I’ve had to look at is, okay, hey, what works for my program? What works for what I want to see.
So I oversee the strength training. I oversee the mobility. I oversee every little piece, and so what we do is exactly what I want us to